How does a Jnani see his/her body?

Before I had not realized, I was an individual, with a mind, a thinking process, without any experience. But now in 2003, I am not a person at all. There is no relation to the body at all. But am there. I know what I am as. And nothing can be disturbed. The body can be disturbed. You can shake it. But that which I AM, cannot be disturbed.

SC: So, do you have a feeling that YOU are contained in the body?

Mahaprabu: No, there is no relation at all between THAT and the body. It is very hard to explain. Very hard. It is somewhat like this: There are a few empty balloons in front of you with the mouths open. Imagine that air enters them, they will float right? Now imagine if Air had a feeling. So, Air will simply know it is there; outside the balloon and inside the balloon, equally. So, will Air have a feeling that it is confined to the balloon? No. But if the balloon had a feeling, then the balloon can feel that something entered it. That is how the body will feel.

So, to answer your question, THAT (referring to the Self) will not have a feeling of inside or outside the body. The Body will feel something entered in us. That feeling is for the balloon or for THAT? The Balloon.

SC: Is that feeling for the body a permanent thing?
Mahaprabu: No. It will come, it will go. But who would be concerned with that? Air or Balloon? The balloon alone will be concerned with that. Because Air is not related to the balloon at all. I am Air. I have no worries about the balloon. Any bodily sensation is not mine!

SC: But the body by itself cannot sense that Air is in it right?
Mahaprabu: The brain is in the body, right? The brain will sense that Air is entered.

Awareness and the Brain

In fact, who is the one that is going to know that I am Atma, or I am Brahman? The Brain! The Brain is the one that does not know it. See, the Param Porul, the Atma, Brahman, Self does not have a need to know that it is the Parma Porul, Atma, Self. That need would arise only if it had turned into two, the Self and Not-Self, and later it needed to know that both were the same. i.e. For the Self to realize itself, it should have been divided into the Self and another. But is the Self divided? No. So, who needs that understanding? The brain. So, when the brain senses the air (referring to IT) entering, the brain will know. It will know when it leaves. There is no condition that it should be there always.

For example, I have a light and something that covers it. When I cover the light, you’ll see light for a specific diameter. I use a bigger cover. The lighted area will be larger. An even bigger cover will show more light. That is how the brain will know, when THAT enters. Whenever needed, a certain amount of light (Awareness) is felt by the brain. Enough amount of it to know what it needs at that moment. If more is needed, more is made available to the brain. All these are simply examples to try to make you understand.

Once the brain recognizes that there is this thing, Consciousness, Atma, Self, it will never forget IT. IT was always there but not within the recognition of the brain, which was focused entirely on the idea of a person all this while.

SC: When you say IT, it appears that you are referring to another entity, not you. But it is your Self that you are referring to. Naan (I) correct? Why don’t you say ‘Naan’, or ‘I’?
Mahaprabu: Yes, See I can use ‘Me’ or ‘I’ only when there is another! There isn’t. So, it feels dirty to say ‘I’ or ‘Me’ in that sense. It’s like this. Your brain has 2 hemispheres. Can the left tell the right hemisphere: ‘I’ am going to eat. What are ‘you’ going to do? It can’t even be imagined. It won’t happen that way. Similarly, there is no feeling of I or me, since there isn’t another. Even you, forget about Jnanam, is there one I for you or two I’s? No. There is only one I at any time. You are singular, even as an ego. You say, ‘I’, for ‘Me’ etc. You don’t say for ‘Them’. You cannot separate it. Do you say, ‘I’ am hungry, but ‘He’ is not, while referring to yourself? (Laughing)

All this is very hard to explain and understand. Only a close example can be given. But when IT happens, the brain will understand that all the while IT was there, but not noticed. Like an amla fruit in one’s palm that was always there. Once you know it is there, even if you close your fist, you will not forget that the fruit is with you now.

Witness and Samadhi

SC: Then if there is an effort by the brain to recognize the Self, what is it?
Mahaprabu: At this point you need to put effort. You have not seen yourself. You have been told that there is something. You feel your existence, you can find it, but you don’t know much about it. You haven’t brought it within the total awareness of the brain. So, as you keep familiarizing your brain towards it more and more, certain experiences will happen. Initially when experiences happen to you, something is witnessing the experience. Who is that witness? The BRAIN. But when the Brain turns off, there is no witness at all, that is SAMADHI. So, Samadhi is a happening. After Samadhi, there is someone, a witness to say that I don’t know what happened after a point. Who is that witness? The Brain. That witness is a very subtle ego. It was the ego that was searching to go deep. It is a minor portion of the ego. At some point the brain will learn that ‘I’ is just a thought, a record.

As you go more often into Samadhi, there will still be two things. The tiny ego as the last witness, and a happening that takes place after that (samadhi). So, will you prefer the witnesser or the experience that follows it? The Experience. But now you are still enjoying being the witness. Yes or No?

SC: Yes, I am being the witness waiting for the experience to happen, to enjoy it!
Mahaprabu: Yes, so how can there be an experience as long as you are there! But there is no other way. This is how it happens. Again and again, you try to witness yourself going into Samadhi, and when Samadhi happens you lose yourself. Can the witness tell what happens in Samadhi? No. The witness turns off. Only in Samadhi is IT there totally. It goes to the Origin, Adi. Since it is equal to the origin, it is called Samadhi (Sama means equal and Adi means origin). Adhikku samam – Equal to the Origin. So IT is the Origin. Hence the word Samadhi. IT will be in the universal stage, where the witness no longer exists, you as an individual will disappear. So, in that stage will you have any relation to this body? Will you care to enter it? And does it matter whether the body is there or not? Death doesn’t bother you anymore. Similarly, birth doesn’t matter to you either. All this will become registered by who? That last witness. It will fully absorb the fact that birth, death are all for the body only. Not for THAT state. The witness will no longer care about body, birth, death.

SC: So, Realization, Realizing is for the Witness, a part of the brain system.
Mahaprabu: Yes, who does the thinking? The brain is a better word.

SC: Yes, in the brain is recorded a thought that I am the witness.
Mahaprabu: Yes, these thoughts of individual, and now the thought of a witness are all where? In the brain. They are all recorded in the brain. That’s why in the olden days they didn’t encourage looking in the mirror at all. But see today. Continuously we are recording images of the body as ourself!

SC: So last time we met I remember sitting in the car (after the Unarvu nilai dhyanam you gave me) and not knowing anything for the next 30 minutes. The car reached home and that’s when I became aware. Does that mean I was in Samadhi?
Mahaprabu: Yes, you were but you didn’t realize it. That’s why you are doubting it. If the witness was really sharp, it would know what happened at that point of disappearance, and the point of reappearance. As you do it more and more, the witness becomes sharper, more familiar with it, becomes really sharp. Then it will know the point where you disappeared into Samadhi and the point where you came out of it. If it did, you wouldn’t doubt if you were in Samadhi. You are asking me, correct? That means you have a doubt. But that is how it happens. Over repeated practice, the witness becomes sharp.

SC: Also, the witness is not familiarized fully with that Experience; it doesn’t know that it is always there like fruit in the palm.
Mahaprabu: Yes. As Bhagavan said (a verse about being a sharp witness):
Yezumbum ahandai yezundathai… pechu muchu… kurnda madiyal…
Bhagavan is referring to that sharp witness. (Mahaprabu kept stressing the word sharp witness)

As you go more and more into Samadhi, the witness will become very familiar with the Experience. That will take you there more and more. As soon as it senses IT, it will make arrangements to dive deep. Like when a Minister comes, people clear the path quickly for him to pass through! You will not interact much with the world.

So who enjoys the Experience?
SC: The Witness
All this while who had suffered?
SC: The same Witness.

Yes, the one who saw Narakam (hell), now sees Swargam (Heaven). Only he would know comparatively that this is Heaven.

This is why you cannot help those who are suffering in the world. They have to go to the extreme of suffering to turn the other direction. So many of you run to help someone who is suffering. Is that a good thing? You are stopping what nature is doing. We don’t let people suffer. The witness needs to know the extreme of suffering to turn towards Happiness. As far as Brahmam is concerned, there is no Swargam/Naragam. All this is just for the Witness.

Once the Witness has seen the real Swargam (figuratively heaven, but means the Truth, the Experience), will he see the Naragam (figuratively) in the world?

SC: Yes, if he chooses to.
Mahaprabu: He will never see this as hell again, because he knows that this suffering is not real. See, when I see someone suffering, I see it as part of the Play, for him to turn inward. Once you have seen THAT which is appearing as all this, will you then feel bad? This Naragam (hell) is a play, and it is created so the individual can turn inward. I see this is as compassion. I am seeing it from the standpoint of Air (balloon example above). It is everywhere, just appearing different.

Keep the Witness sharp

The Witnessing needs to be very sharp. That’s why you should not see things unnecessarily, talk to people unnecessarily. Do you have 1 Witness or Many! (Laughing). So, with the only Witness, when you engage it in so many things, seeing things, talking things imagine the quality of that Witnessing. It would be very dull. As you feed more and more information, at some point you will say ‘What Witness, What are you talking about? I don’t feel any Witness’. Imagine the plight of one who does not even know there is a witness!

Imagine the plight of students today. So much information is fed into them continuously by Parents, Teachers, Friends etc. What potential can you expect from them? The goal seems to be to make them efficient not Aware. Like a military man, who is efficient, and disciplined. When he becomes an officer, who do you think he is going to create? More efficient beings. Like an IAS officer. His entire life will center around that role, not who he really is. And people around him are continuously feeding him information that strengthens the role. And these so-called successful people become role models for others. It is like they are all drinking from a mirage and saying ‘Ahh, my thirst is gone’, so now others learn to drink from that mirage.

Thus, the witness becomes duller and duller as one engages in the world. By Witness I mean an ability; a witnessing ability; a dead brain (referring to just the organ) cannot witness. Brahmam alone gives it light, which then starts to receive and store information. Brahman itself empowers the Brain by giving it an ability to Witness IT (Brahman).

In this day and age, safeguarding that Witness is very difficult. Who alone can have the Experience? The Witness alone can get to it. But in the crowded world we live, no one is witnessing. You don’t even know what is going on in your mind, in your body because your attention is always turned outward. After going inward, you have to cross what is in your mind, your emotions, your body. It takes a very sharp witness to go past this, and start to experience what reality IS.

It is the nature of the witness to run after whatever comes in its view.

SC: And if there isn’t anything in view, it starts to ruminate on the past or imagine the future.
Mahaprabu: Yes. That is why the present-moment practice is very essential. Remember I told you about the practice I had in 2002 for one full year to be in the present moment. Also, this witnessing ability in rare cases suddenly touches on the Experience. But that is like Sartori. It is not necessarily repeatable. So, the only way is to keep on sharpening the witness till it not only sees the Experience but becomes stable in it.

The importance of Patience

Even then, can the Witness create the Experience of Samadhi? No. Therefore you can only make the Witnessing ability sharp. Only up to that point is your job. After that the Experience (samadhi) may happen or may not happen. That is why tremendous Patience is needed. Witnessing ability is one thing. Keeping yourself patient is another ability. Both of these have to be developed simultaneously and that’s how they develop. They are related. In this world do you think people are being taught to be patient? No. But the very first ability that needs to be developed is Patience. It is the mother of so many abilities, including Witnessing. So, the very first thing that the Master develops in a disciple is Patience. He puts the disciple through increasing levels of trials to grow his patience. Many disciples lose their patience. Their interest in Spirituality grows, but their abilities are not growing. Look within yourself sharply and tell me, do you have all the patience it requires to reach what I am referring to?
SC: No.
Mahaprabu: Then how can it Happen? Whoever you are, you may be a beggar, you may be a king. It doesn’t matter. The requirement is the same. And I cannot give you a portion of my patience. It has to be developed. That is what the Guru is doing.

And you know the interesting thing, this Patience ability should be grown quickly. We cannot grow it very patiently (laughing). The body has been given limited time. I have to develop this ability in the disciple quickly. If you are really patient, won’t it reflect in all your actions? It is a good thing. And it has to be developed. There is no other way. Ask any human mind, which one it prefers. One with patience or one who is impatient? You give the prize to the patient one. Now imagine, you are asking for the HIGHEST prize of all. Imagine how much patience you have to develop. Only when you have done that, will IT notice you and come to you oozing.

Mahaprabu then spoke about his vision to have a school where children are taught these Godly qualities from young. And how parents are likely to be the first resistance. Therefore, he is looking at bringing orphans in.