Just to make you understand, let us say: A = Atma; B = Deposits from various births (Vasanas). In each birth the experiences and brain collect and deposit them. C = Body; D = In this birth, the idea of me as a person, which is a memory deposition.

A person (P) who has known Mahaprabu for some time said: ‘I am in a fix. I am in love with someone. Don’t know what to do. I am wondering who is that love for? Who is having that Love?

Mahaprabu responded by saying ‘Love can be there. You can also love her, but you should not think of her as your lover (kaadhali).’ How this is possible, is how the discussion started.

P: Say in my house there is a toilet. If I think it is mine, I will maintain it well. But if it is a public toilet I won’t maintain it well. So only if I think of it as mine I will maintain it well. You are asking me to maintain it without thinking of it as mine.

Mahaprabu: Don’t think of Public vs. Private toilet. Say they have given a public toilet in the street and in each house there is a toilet allocated but you don’t own it. There are 100 homes in the street, each house has been allocated a toilet. The toilet is in your house, but you don’t own it. It is not in your name. Now is that a public or private toilet?

P: Public.
Mahaprabu: (Laughing) So can you own it? No. But will you not maintain it? You will. This is how you should see it.

P: So where is the love arising from? Isn’t it for D, the idea of a person. So, unless I am an individual how can I experience it?
Mahaprabu: You have to make a choice. Category One: My only priority in life is to attain Jnana. Whatever I get or not get, enjoy or not, I must attain Jnana. (or) Category Two: I want Jnana and I want the other things to. Say Jnana is X, and various desires are Y1, Y2, Y3. If a seeker in category One comes to me, then I will handle him in a way that he doesn’t get pulled into Y1, Y2, Y3. But if a disciple comes to me in category Two, then the energy has to be split between X and his Y’s. Therefore there will be a delay in his growth. Till the point of tiredness of Y1, Y2 etc. I have to wait. So, you have to be clear about which category you are in. And if you are in Category two, you should not talk like someone who is in Category One. (Laughing. Referring to the relationship he is thinking about) Be clear. First tell me which category you are in.

P: I’m in Category Two.

Mahaprabu: Then I will start talking to a Category Two person. But even if I talk in terms of Category Two, since eventually after Y1, Y2 etc are gone, my words will eventually turn towards X (Jnana), therefore will sound like I’m talking to Category One person. It will join at that point.

See, the love (desire for the lover) comes from B. So, B has Pleasure records but also has Pain records. What D does is that it magnifies the Pain more than the Pleasure. That is why we suffer. It is like seeing a small stone with a magnifying lens without knowing that there is a lens. This is why most of our so-called problems appear larger than they actually are. This is because Pain records are always magnified more than Pleasure. That is how it is. So, we need to remove that Lens.

Let us go deeper. B has both Pain and Pleasure. To you it appears as two different things, but really they are not. It is like Brightness and Darkness. Even though they appear as different things, they are two extremes of one aspect Light. Similarly, Likes and Dislike, Pain and Pleasure seem to be two but are extremes of one aspect. So if you go deep into B, Pain and Pleasure are one and the same. I cannot explain this further in words. You have to experience it at that depth. It is like this. Say you are in Love. Now your task is to explain that feeling of Love to a small child. What will you say? You cannot express it. It has to be experienced.

Now if you go below B and see who this Like and Dislike is for? It is for Atma A in the end. Which is the one with life here? Only Atma. So because of A, there is B. And because of B, there is C (body is born). Don’t your records make you take birth accordingly?  And due to C, the idea of person D is born (body identification).

P: So how can one be without D? If having a body means you have D, how can you be without it. I see a girl and think she is my lover. Only if I have D, I will feel her.

Mahaprabu: Your first question. Can I be without D. See, this A, B, and C is an integrated system. They cannot be avoided. But D is not part of it. For example, when you were a child in your mother’s womb, was A there? Yes. Was the body C there? Yes. If A and C are there, then B definitely must have been there. You may not have felt it since it was a seed, but B is the cause for C. So, A, B, and C were there but was there D? No. And even after you came out into the world, D was not there. D comes later when people start identifying you as a male, with a name, etc. So what is D? A thought in the brain that has come from outside. Therefore D is related to what? Since the brain is part of the body, D is related to C. Now C is connected with what? B, its cause, stemming from A. So if D is connected with C and C is connected with A, then D is also indirectly connected with A. One by one you have to come out of this.

Who are you? You are actually A, but you are thinking you are D. The Atma A is thinking that itself is D. This is Ignorance. So if there is something you can remove now it is D.

P: So should I keep reminding myself that I am not D, I am not D, I will not use this lens?
Mahaprabu: If you are able to do it, go ahead.

P: So when I am with this girl, and I practice this, when I look closely at D, I will lose D at that point. Then I feel the consciousness and am without D.
Mahaprabu: Yes, and when that happens is that a disturbed state, something that you wouldn’t want?

P: No.
Mahaprabu: Then what is the need for the love and the girl at that point (Laughing!!!). See how we fall into the trap of seeking happiness outside. Who is the one making you go outside? Your records B, which come out through D. So even though you say ‘hypothetically when I am without D I would not be disturbed’, you have not tried it. Remember that B is still there underneath. The Likes and Dislikes are still there. Only D is gone. B is still there. So, B will dominate and come out.

SC: So, B can operate without D through the body C?
Mahaprabu: Definitely. Don’t children have likes and dislikes? They go towards some things, some people, and not others. Also doesn’t an ant or bug have a body (C) without ego (D)?

Your question is without a Lover, how can there be Love? Which is the Lover? D and Love? B (Likes and Dislikes). So without D, there can still be B. Remember this is not actually Love, but a desire. Where does this desire originate from? B or A.

SC: It is a deposit in B but must come from A.
Mahaprabu: It comes from A originally but is Reflected in B. From this love in A, comes a desire in B and is exposed as a sexual feeling which is experienced in C, the body. It is this combination of A, B and C that is responsible for creation. And D forms opinions about this, that ‘If I indulge in desires, sex etc, there is a feeling of happiness’. It remembers these. For this it magnifies B. This is so it can continue in the next birth. (SC: Oh my God!) This capacity of D is more pronounced in humans only because of our advanced brain. See an Amoeba or Ant doesn’t have a brain. Then a very basic brain is formed. Dogs, Cats, Lions have a brain. Yet a Lion does not think I am a Lion (no D). But where are its records stored? In B. So D is not a requirement of B. B can be formed without D. But D magnifies, boosts, and strengthens B. For what? For the next birth!

SC: Wow! What a rascal.
Mahaprabu: Laughing. See the depth.

P: Still saying that he has so many problems.
Mahaprabu: So back to the main topic. You, are in Category Two. B and D combined are bothering you. Actually, you don’t exist. The problem is not for You. A exists, B exists, C exists. D is the one that has the problem. C won’t even know if it has a problem (physical mass). B is in between. A has no problem whatsoever. So, don’t confuse yourself with D. Strength is needed. More and more in Satsang and with Guru will give you the strength. Be clear as to what is driving your love for the girl. Is it love or sex? See carefully.

Peace and Confusion.

Mahaprabu to P: Now, this moment how are you feeling? You were so confused when you started. D said ‘he was at peace’. Mahaprabu: That peace did I give you or was it there in you? D said ‘it was in me’. Mahaprabu: So, the confusion came from where? From you. That peace is there at the depth. The confusion is entirely on the surface only. Now you were able to go from that confusion to the peace. But you are swimming on the surface all the time. It has to be skipped entirely. You have to jump away from it. But what you are all doing? Being in the state of confusion, you are trying to be without confusion, searching for a place without confusion. You are trying to find the solution while staying in the problem. When you are in confusion, when you search, you will only see what? Confusion. The key is to totally skip the confusion, and jump away from it. Only then you can be in peace. For a second I was able to make you jump. But I am there 24×7. Only a Jnani can do this. Only he has the capacity to make you jump from Confusion to Peace. (Kozappamana nilai lendhu kozappam atra nilai ku konduvara atral). So see where you have to be and where you are. Whom you have to be with. I am asking you to come to a place of no confusion (meaning with Mahaprabu) Staying alone by yourself, you are wallowing in the state of confusion and suffering so much and giving up. But instead as you stay with Mahaprabu longer you will be more and more in a confusion-less state and it will become sagajam (natural) one day. When you see Confusion from a confusion-less state you will find a solution to it. For e.g. someone has a problem. You don’t have that problem. Only you can see his problem objectively. Similarly a person has a confused state and also a time when he is clear. Only from the clear state when he sees confusion can he solve the confusion. What will remain? The un-confused state. As you continue to stay in the unconfused state, even though sometimes a confusion arises, you will see it for what it is. Just a confusion. You will skip it. The confused state goes away. What remains is again the unconfused clear state. One day all the states will be unconfused, clear. That is the Master. That is why anytime the disciple comes to the Master with confusion, his confusion soon becomes cleared easily. (SC has seen this happen so many times.) Because he sees the problem from a state of clarity. But that is not the solution for you. You yourself should find that. You should become a master of coming out of confusion at all times. The intention of the Master is not for the disciple to follow him always. The intention of the Master is that the disciple should BECOME the Master.

You should become the Master. Master of what? You should be able to manage all situations by seeing them from an unconfused state at all times. And when a new confusion occurs (due to traces of B or D), if you are able to jump out of it immediately and see it from the unconfused state then you will remain in peace. So developing this ability to jump from confusion to unconfused state, seeing the problem, finding the solution objectively, and the confusion goes away, peace remains; and repeating it again and again till you remain unshakeable in the unconfused state, is the goal. This is what I call growth. But once you are established in that unconfused state permanently, there is no more growth since that unconfused state was already there, always there. Now there is no question of growth or depreciation. A Jnani speaks from there experientially. But so many teachers merely talk about this.

SC: So, the greatest achievement is to be able to remain in this unconfused state. Not knowledge or anything. None of that is necessary.

Mahaprabu: No question. It is the greatest Blessing. You have to move very fast towards this. Very fast you have to come to this. Don’t get caught anywhere else. Who is today is gone tomorrow. Saying ‘I will live for them’, ‘I will live for him’, ‘What will they think’, is very dangerous. Once you see it in the unconfused state you will see them clearly. Decisions will become easy. It doesn’t mean that it will be right every time. It may not be perfect for all at the time. Like Osho says: ‘You cannot say that Jnanis will do everything perfectly at all times, but whatever they do will be perfect for that situation.’ His actions will fit perfectly with the flow. That’s why I am saying ‘Please, please run away from all this.’ Because 50 years from now you won’t have any idea who they are, where they are. In your previous life you were with a whole other group. Even now, tell me if you remember how you were in 5^th standard. Or as a child. You can’t even remember this birth. Take the father of your body. At his deathbed, when all the faculties fail he won’t even remember you. When you go to him and say ‘Dad, I have come’ he might say ‘Who are you?’ Because memory fades. It is all memory. Don’t be cheated. Your entire world and all your relations are stored where? In your Brain. Even if all those memories turn off, Unarvu, Life, A will be there. C body will be there. Deposits B will be there. But D won’t be there. Then C will go away one day. At that time, B will stick with A and stay. Then B will create another C. The next C. As long as B is there, C has to come. And if C comes, D will eventually come. Every birth B only has a higher chance of getting stronger and stronger. This world, things, these so-called relations, will all make D strong and through that make B stronger. Only the Guru makes D weak and through that makes B weak. All other relationships make D stronger, thereby making B stronger. Living with the Guru alone is strength. Only that gives you strength. Everything else sucks the strength away. See, even though you know what to do, you are not able to do it. Why? Because there is no strength.

Know that which, once you know, there is no need to know anything else. That IS inside.

So what Mahaprabu is saying is this: Do you know what you need? That which is there when you disappear. You like that experience. All do. In sleep when you disappear, you enjoy that experience. This yearning for that is common for ALL. That’s why more than sleep, sex is more vibrant. Sleep drags you away into losing you. The disappearance is in darkness. In sex you disappear but are still aware of the experience. It is happening consciously. That’s why everyone likes it. Why? Because nee illadho podhu anga irukkira anubhavam kadaikudhu. You are able to experience THAT which is there when you are not there. That too Live (as in not past). In Atma Anubhavam the difference is that D disappears and A remains, without B and therefore without the need for C.

It all comes down to bringing your attention inward and seeing what is real and what is not real.

Getting rid of B (Vasanas)

When Unarvu Nilai Dhyanam comes, depending on the maturity of the disciple it hits him directly. It can take you directly to A. But B quickly comes in the way. So without totally getting rid of B, there is no use.

SC: How to get rid of B?
Mahaprabu: Surrender is the only way. At one stage B happened without D. But once D came in, D started zooming it and strengthening it. So once you eliminate D, B won’t have strength. It won’t be zoomed.

SC: How about the deposits in B over many lifetimes?
Mahaprabu: That is not a big problem. As you keep on staying in Surrender those will come out. First D surrenders. Along with it, C also will be in surrender. D gets cut. Now A, B, C are left. But Surrender has to continue. Who started the Surrender? D. But D is gone. Yet Surrender has to continue, right? Can C do it? No C has no arivu (feeling of its existence). C is jada (inert). Neither does B. B is mental structures. So, something has to surrender B & C. D used to do it. Now A (Atma) does that. So A itself will Surrender. That is pari-poorana-saranagthi (Total unconditional surrender).

SC: To whom?
Mahaprabu: To the Guru! That’s who D surrendered to. A also will surrender. Slowly B will go away. Because B was formed without D, due to the connection with C. When B and C disappear, A will stand alone, pure. Once this happens totally, only then A will feel A. It would have felt it thus far as coming from the Guru, but eventually will realize that it is coming from itself. So without A getting involved, A cannot realize A. Right? How can A realize without involving itself? To realize A, A should be there right? So Guru is just the mirror.

SC: Right now it feels like D is surrendering to the A in me. And I feel that A in me and the Guru are one and the same.
Mahaprabu: You should not go that way now. It is dangerous. Don’t fall for the tricks of D. It will play treacherous games and will use B. Surrender only to the GURU.

SC: Physical form of Guru?
Mahaprabu: Better than physical form, say ‘External’. (as opposed to your internal). It can be physical when you are with him, it can be mental when you are physically away. It can be a feeling. Like right now when you think of your father in India, is it physical?

Don’t think your Atma and Guru are one. Bhagavan said, ‘Advaitam can be practiced anywhere in the 3 worlds but never with the Guru.’ Using your brain alone you are guessing that your Atma and Guru are one and the same (Laughing). Many have been misled at this stage. There used to be a disciple, a really good Atma. At that time, he met Mahaprabu. The body age was around 50 already then. He told me about his strong feeling that: He had this question that should he surrender to the Atma within, since he finds that to be even better than surrendering to a Guru. Mahaprabu could see that even though he was good soul, he was being pulled into a different track by the people around him. Told him he definitely needs to surrender to the physical Guru, live with him and serve him. As you do that, at one point there will be a maturity. At that point, this question will not even exist in you. Right now you have a question right? That itself shows that there is no surrender, and that there is someone who is asking the question. For example, having eaten well, if you are full, will you ask someone if your hunger has gone! No. You will know for sure yourself. He spent very little time with Mahaprabu and I noticed that he would become silent very quickly. But he did not listen and stuck to his group. They were more interested in going on pilgrimages, e.g. Himalayas etc. See how one loses a great opportunity.

SC: But really what I meant was that I strongly feel that there is something inside. If I had to give this feeling a name, I would call it God. I feel a strong sense of gratitude to it. It is the same feeling that happens when you give Unarvu Nilai Dhyanam.

Mahaprabu: That is OK, let it be. Yes there is God inside. But above that is B. And above that is D. Correct? So yes, there is definitely God inside, but when you say that there is God inside, do you know who is saying that? A or D or B. You don’t. Until D and B are gone, don’t give any definition to that. Enjoy it when it happens but do not give any definition or derivation. Do not go to any decision. Who is giving the definition? A or B or D?

SC: Only D would do that!
Mahaprabu: See! Be careful. Enjoy whatever comes at that moment. One thing to remember is as long as D is there, B will be there. Even after the disappearance of D, B will still be there. Correct? Till B is completely disappearing till then, the Surrender process of A should be continued. Surrender is the only way. Right now the Surrender is D’s! I won’t believe that. Right now, Surrender is merely a decision. A decision by D. When A surrenders (which is the real Surrender) it will not be a decision. It will be a strong determination. A decision can be changed easily. But a strong determination cannot be revoked that easily. It is like a one-way. It will move straight towards IT and finish it off. It is like this: Before marriage, the girl (in Indian traditional arranged marriages) can evaluate and decide between various proposals. She can change her decision anytime. Even if the engagement function is complete, she can withdraw. But once the marriage happens can she easily withdraw? No. If they have entered into a physical relationship, even harder. Once they have children, the chances of her wanting to withdraw are very remote. The underlying determination will be very strong. Like that, as long as D is there, anytime it can withdraw from its Surrender. But when it reaches A, it is very hard to withdraw. All this has to be experienced, not understood. Because these things happen in the absence of D. That’s why it takes time. And people don’t want to surrender. That’s why people prefer a dead Master than a head Master. Because there is no problem at all there. D inside the disciple decides the surrender and it stops there. It can keep making you believe that you are in surrender, when you are really not (since D and B are still intact). But with a real Master, he will demand the surrender of A! A dead master will not demand anything. The surrender and its boundaries are set by D. But with a real Master, the A in the Master is deciding the boundary of your surrender. That’s why there is a difference. And it is a very big difference.

Great things are happening. We are on the right track. We just have to stick to it and let the process do its thing. The raw materials have arrived. The manufacturing process had begun. Your mindset should be this. That you have arrived. More than this there is nothing to be learned or understood from the Guru. Be in Surrender. This is an inner relationship. Not a knowledge transfer. The process has to happen. Like we have planted a seed. It has to grow and come up to be the plant. You have to wait. And while waiting, the process is happening below. You don’t start digging every once in a while, to see if the growth is happening! (Laughing). [SC was Amazed at his apt examples.] You will never let it grow, correct! What is needed is tremendous patience.

Sacrifice everything for this

Every day you get is so important, a blessing. One has to use ALL his resources. Nature is giving it to you so you can use it. Time, Effort, Money, Enthusiasm all must be used. Say you have a thousand crore rupees. You use all of it towards your goal of Jnana and it got depleted to zero. But you have attained Jnana. Now you are a smart person. But on the other hand you have not used most of that money but died without attaining Jnana. That money will be here. But it was given for you to use. This is money. Time has been given for you. The one who uses all or most of it to attain Jnana is an intelligent person. He who has wasted it is a fool. Similarly the Guru must be used to the maximum. All disciples need to realize this and work hard towards the goal. Everyday is important. Look at Mahaprabu. The wife is in Chennai. Children are there. It is raining heavily. Still he is on the road heading towards Tiruvannamalai. For whom? For the disciple. Every minute is being used to move the disciples towards Jnana.

SC: Amazed at his ability to separate, disconnect from family etc. during his Sadhana period and remarked about it.

Mahaprabu: Family is ignorance. What do we need? Our true nature is all we need. The lies have to go. Family is a lie. Yes, there are physical bodies. The Jiva that gave birth to this body. There is love for that Jivan because she took so much care of this body. That Jiva needs to be helped when there is a real need and when no one else is there to take care of it. That we should do. That is real. But that ‘she’ is a mother and that ‘I’ am a son is not true. It is imagination. What you are calling separation, disconnection is this: The lie, the possessiveness has been disconnected. But the Love is there, the blessing is there. And there isn’t a real need on their end. Physically or for Jnana. If they had a need for Jnana, then I would relate to them but only as a Master-Disciple. Not as a mother. See again it is a matter of need. Not right/wrong. If she were a disciple, and there was another disciple who is younger but more mature spiritually, I would ask her (mother) to serve that younger disciple. It is not a matter of age but stage! So, even if she connects back, it will only be as a Master-Disciple, not Mother-Son. She will have to forget that she is a mother and I am a son, because that is not real. I have disconnected the possessiveness, the misconception but not the Love. That is why they are surprised (parents). We have been angry with him most of the time since he left us, but he has always showered only love on us. SC asked how they know you shower love on them. Mahaprabu: Because I call them once in a while. I even visit them. When they really feel like seeing me, I go. Not as family. But out of gratitude. Love. They have not harmed me. Because they don’t know the path I was in, they acted that way. They didn’t support me, but they did not stop me. They feel that Love. For instance the love they see from my siblings’ body is mixed with expectation. But Mahaprabu’s Love is different. There is no expectation. I hug and kiss them. Because I see them only as Atma, not realizing that it is Atma but imagining it to be mother, father. A blessing goes from me to them when I see them, kiss them. Instead of them blessing me, the blessing goes from here. For them to receive that blessing IT sends me there! Either the Mohammedan should move to the mountain or the mountain should move to the Mohammedan!

I am a flow.

If they become the reservoir, the flow will happen. This holds good for anybody. If you become a reservoir, I am the flow. I am nothing but a flow. For instance, see how long we have been talking. More than one and a half hours.

Silence for some time. Then he said…

A very big treasure of Jnana is sitting here in Mahaprabu. Suited for this stage of the world. A treasure that is suited to be accessible by this stage of the world.